Interview with President Comandante Daniel Ortega with the journalist Carolina Chimoy, reporter for Deutsche Welle.
September 10th 2018
Unoffical translation
Carolina Chimoy
Welcome to this interview by Deutsche Welle. My name is Carolina Chimoy, we are in Managua, Nicaragua and I am here with the President of Nicaragua, Mr. Daniel Ortega. Thank you very much for giving this interview President Ortega
President Daniel Ortega
Welcome to Nicaragua.
Carolina Chimoy
Thank you. President, you were a guerrilla fighter, a revolutionary, you fought with many other Sandinista comrades against the Somoza dictatorship. tell us a little about how the Daniel Ortega of that time compares to the Daniel Ortega we see today.
President Daniel Ortega
Well, I have had to live various stages. I’d say the first main stage was that of the struggle against the Somoza tyranny. It was a stage when we were full of that feeling that we were seeing a tyranny imposed there by the United States of North America for 43 years. After murdering Sandino,43 years of that tyranny, imposed by the United States,armed by the United States, as was recognized also by the international community, Europe, the whole world acknowledged it.
Carolina Chimoy
Would you say you have achieved the objectives you had in those days as a guerrilla fighter?
President Daniel Ortega
Back then we achieved the objective of overthrowing the dictatorship and then we wanted to build up Nicaragua, to build it for the benefit of the people, to lift Nicaragua out of poverty. To do so the first mission the Revolution undertook after the Triumph was to promote Literacy. We had 60% illiteracy. So the main task was to promote literacy, fundamental! Well, a country with such huge indices of illiteracy simply could not become a country with Justice or with possibilities of welfare for impoverished people.
Carolina Chimoy
And are you content with the Nicaragua in which you live now?
President Daniel Ortega
Well, then came the second stage. We left government in 1990.
Carolina Chimoy
And the Nicaragua of today is the country you imagined back then?
President Daniel Ortega
I’ve been content with what we managed to build up after 2007. From 2007 up until April 18th of this year 2018 we managed to build a Nicaragua where at last a convergence was reached between the different National Actors.
Carolina Chimoy
And what happened on April 18th? Why did that change everything?
President Daniel Ortega
On April 18th,, with much greater intensity, the United States plan was activated to destroy our national project. In other words, they began to try and destroy it ever since we took office in 2007, the United States then set out to destroy and in rural areas armed groups were formed, I don’t know if this was explained to you, where these armed groups were projected by the opposition and the human rights groups as “patriots”, with their support base in Miami.
Carolina Chimoy
President, so you are telling me that April 18th resulted from a plan of the United States?
President Daniel Ortega
That’s right
Carolina Chimoy
With what objective?
President Daniel Ortega
To remove us from government.They didn’t want us in government!
Carolina Chimoy
Why not? What for? What is the final objective of the United States?
President Daniel Ortega
To control Nicaragua! They want submssive governments. That is why during the period 1990 to 2006, when there were elections, in 2006, and we took office in January 2007, in all that period of 16, 17 years, every time elections came around, high level US functionaries, including General Colin Powell used to come and tell the Nicaraguan People not to vote for the Sandinista Front. So when we took office that upset them.
Carolina Chimoy
President, why does the United States have the power to control Nicaragua? What is the aim for the United States of this plan you have put to me?
President Daniel Ortega
First, there is a historical relation of domination by the United States with Nicaragua.
Carolina Chimoy
But what is that control for? That is what I don’t understand.
President Daniel Ortega
Precisely now we are in the Patriotic Month and while it is true that we are commemorating Independence, which was a calm Independence. Central America simply made itself independent peacefully. But we also commemorate the defeat of Yankee expansionism in Nicaragua.
How did they arrive? Why did they arrive? They arrived invited by the traditional politicians. What for? So as to promote a transit route across Nicaragua. And this brings us to the history of the Canal. Since the Spanish arrived here and the British also invaded Nicaragua, arguing over Nicaragua’s Canal route. That was what the United States were after in their confrontations in Nicaragua back then, the Canal route.
Carolina Chimoy
President, talking of the United States, Nicaragua was recently on the agenda of the United Nations Security Council and the US ambassador to the United Nations said that it is necessary to put an end to the tyranny in Nicaragua since this conflict destabilizes the region. What do you reply to Ambassador Nikki Haley?
President Daniel Ortega
That if they want to contribute to Peace, to Stability in Nicaragua and the region they simply have to respect the decisions, in this case, we Nicaraguans take, and not be constantly conspiring against governments that are not enemies of the United States, although we are enemies of submitting to the policies of the United States.
Carolina Chimoy
But what is the decision taken by Nicaragua against which they are acting now, in this case the US Ambassador Nikki Haley?
President Daniel Ortega
The simple fact that since 2007 a Sandinista Front government has been in office, as I told you, this upset them and led them to start this campaign of death. Because from 2007 to April 2018, before this latest offensive, we had a total of 150 dead, murdered by these armed groups they present as “patriots”.
Carolina Chimoy
The human rights organizations talk about even more don’t they?
President Daniel Ortega
Among them 47 rural producers, 32 members of the army, 27 voluntary police...150 dead, just think of it!
Carolina Chimoy
Mr President, and these 150 deaths, over what period of time and why?
President Daniel Ortega
Since we took office in 2007, they began to organize and then began to attack communities, attack the police and the army.
Carolina Chimoy
Who began the attacks?
President Daniel Ortega
These armed groups.
Carolina Chimoy
Who are these armed groups?
President Daniel Ortega
The armed groups are people who were with the Contra and when the Sandinista Front took office they immediately got support
Carolina Chimoy
And you say these groups are in the demonstrations too?
President Daniel Ortega
No, that is a continuation of the overall plan.
Carolina Chimoy
But the demonstrators are not armed.
President Daniel Ortega
Of course they are. What about, for example, the 22 dead police officers and the 350 police officer with gunshot wounds? How did that happen?
Carolina Chimoy
And what caused the 370 dead, some say 400, aong them many students also during the demonstrations?
President Daniel Ortega
First of all that figure is inflated.
Carolina Chimoy
Inflated by whom? By the human rights organizations?
President Daniel Ortega
By the organizations interested in doing so, because there is a coincidence between the human rights groups who have also been groups of the political opposition and have suported the groups that have killed rural families, killed army soldiers and killed police officers. Now they are inflating those figures. The number of dead is 198 and we are checking that number.
Carolina Chimoy
President, setting aside a bit the numbers which evidently are not agreed, we have also seen in other interviews that a lot of people have died in short period of time and sometimes very brutally. What can you do to ensure that is not going to continue to happen in your country?
President Daniel Ortega
That happened because they caused those deaths.
Carolina Chimoy
But what can you do to make sure it doesn’t continue to happen?
President Daniel Ortega
Well, I can tell you the following. We have had 11 years here where there have been protests and demonstrations without a single death! By contrast, whenever there have been activities of the Sandinista Front, and the most shocking was one July 19th at night when buses with families returning to their communities were attacked by these groups and we suffered deaths then, including children But the international community could hardly care less.
Carolina Chimoy
President Ortega, what message do you have for the US Ambassador to the United Nations, or even for US President Trump after all you have said about that country? What concrete message would you send them?
President Daniel Ortega
Well, that the United States cannot continue the policy against Nicaragua it has practiced since the century before last. It cannot continue with that policy because that is what has caused grief and death in Nicaragua. Tis has been so since the invasion I mentioned to you of 1854 to 1856, followed later by US troops and Sandino fighting against them. In other words so much war imposed on Nicaragua, somuch bloodshedand so much poverty. or ut differently, their imposed governments were unable to lift the country out of poverty.
Carolina Chimoy
Mr President, in this country, in Nicaraua is there persecution of people who critize the current government?
President Daniel Ortega
Not in the least. Not at all!
Carolina Chimoy
There is no persecution of people?
President Daniel Ortega
No persecution exists. If you watch the news media here, listen to the radio, watch television, read the newspapers, you will see there is no perscution.
Carolina Chimoy
People aren’t persecuted and arrested for thinking differently, for criticizing the government?
President Daniel Ortega
Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
Carolina Chimoy
We received information from Mr Carlos Brenes, whom you know. Both were Sandinistas and fought together...right?
President Daniel Ortega
That’s right.
Carolina Chimoy
Well you probably know what happened to Mr Carlos Brenes, he was on his way to Costa Rica and they arrested him at the border. Now it turns out that the daughter of Mr Brenes is a German citizen and has come to look for her father because its not known where he is under arrest.
President Daniel Ortega
Everyone knows where he is.
Carolina Chimoy
Where?
President Daniel Ortega
He is in the Judicial Auxiliary facility.
Carolina Chimoy
And why is he under arrest?
President Daniel Ortega
Because he was fleeing to Costa Rica.
Carolina Chimoy
He was going to visit his son.
President Daniel Ortega
No. He was fleeing to Costa Rica. Why? Because the situation we had here ever since we lost the elections in 1990 and left the government…
Carolina Chimoy
In relation to that, the elections were brought forward in 1990, right?
President Daniel Ortega
Not really they were in the year they were scheduled.
Carolina Chimoy
But they were brought forward from November to February.
President Daniel Ortega
Bringing the elections forward a few months was a very personal decision on my part.
Carolina Chimoy
And why not bring them forward now?
President Daniel Ortega
The situation we have now has nothing to do with what we faced then when we had a war and needed to speed things up. What for? So the counter-revolutionary forces could disarm.
Carolina Chimoy
But don’t you think to avoid more deaths now and perhaps ask the people if they still support you as President or not?
President Daniel Ortega
It’s that what has happened here now has been an attempted coup d’etat.
Carolina Chimoy
Who are the coup promoters?
President Daniel Ortega
The people promoting the coup are the forces nurtured by the United States of North America who have been in opposition.
Carolina Chimoy
Who are they, concretely, here in Nicaragua? Who are they, which organizations, whose faces are they? Tell me who they are.
President Daniel Ortega
They are known, very well known.
Carolina Chimoy
Not in Germany. Who are the coup promoters? Who do you call promoters of the coup?
President Daniel Ortega
The people who have promoted the atempted coup are those who attacked the police with firearms, who set fire to municipal offices, who set out to destroy the country, to destroy the economy. They are the people who promoted the coup.
Carolina Chimoy
But who are they? What part of society? Are they NGOS? Who are they?
President Daniel Ortega
It’s a segment made up of a combination of right wing political parties and NGOs. That’s the combination, right wing political parties and NGOs.
Carolina Chimoy
Have the students also promoted the coup,
President Daniel Ortega
They are a part of it, naturally.
Carolina Chimoy
Has the Catholic Church also promoted the coup?
President Daniel Ortega
Some leaders of the Catholic church hierarchy clearly supported the attempted coup. So there is a combination.
Carolina Chimoy
If they are leading figures in the Catholic Church , are you saying indirectly that the Catholic Church system and even Pope Francis who made that appeal, are also part of the attempted coup?
President Daniel Ortega
No. The Pope has nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening in Nicaragua.
Carolina Chimoy
But the bishops do?
President Daniel Ortega
Look, you need to know at least a little of Nicaragua’s history. I grew up in a Catholic family.
Carolina Chimoy
Of course, religion is very important here, very rooted in society.
President Daniel Ortega
Yes, but unfortunately even as a boy I had no respect for the bishops, because they were all in the service of Somoza. And when the dictator Somoza died, the founder of that dynasty, they buried him with all the honors of a Prince of the Church. That gives you the idea. Then, later we had big problems with the Church in the 1980s too.
Carolina Chimoy
Mr. President and the bishops now, who do they serve? The bishops here in Nicaragua.
President Daniel Ortega
I’d say we have bishops who are really interested in seeking peace in Nicragua, bishops who are committed...
Carolina Chimoy
What about Auxiliary Bishop Baez, for example with whom we had an interview?
President Daniel Ortega
Some bishops are committed to promoting the coup, totally, openly committed to it.
Carolina Chimoy
So the bishops and the Catholic Church can’t mediate a Dialogue?
President Daniel Ortega
No they can’t. Because when you have an Episcopal Conference where there’s a gorup of bishops openly in favor of the coup, then that contaminates the Episcopal Conference as an institution.
Carolina Chimoy
So who can mediate the dialogue?
President Daniel Ortega
Here the most important dialogue is the one already under way in the communities, in the barrios, among the population. Because otherwise situations like that of the bishops contaminate matters.
Carolina Chimoy
But in a Peace Dialogue Mr President people sit around a table and begin to negotiate. Do you see an opportunity to restart the Peace Dialogue here in Nicaragua?
President Daniel Ortega
An attempt was made and simply didn’t work, first of all because it was televised.
Carolina Chimoy
And will there not be another attempt?
President Daniel Ortega
We are working on dialogue at grass roots.
Carolina Chimoy
In other words there is going to be another Dialogue?
President Daniel Ortega
Yes, one we are working on at grass roots.
Carolina Chimoy
But there won’t be a Dialogue with the different parties sat around a table with a mediator?
President Daniel Ortega
No. We’re working at grass roots which is the most important thing.
Carolina Chimoy
You had said in one interview even that the United Nations might serve as mediators in Dialogue. Do you still see things that way?
President Daniel Ortega
When the Epsicopal Conference was still mediating the Dialogue with us we thought we could look for guidance of some kind because the bishops themselves said they had difficulty mediating the dialogue.
Carolina Chimoy
And why after thinking of the UN as a mediator for the dialogue did you expell the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights?
President Daniel Ortega
They were not expelled.
Carolina Chimoy
They weren’t expelled?
President Daniel Ortega
No. Read the Note that was published…..They were not expelled. They were received by the Foreign Ministry and told the work for which they had been invited was concluded and for that reason their work was over. Because they were here at the invitation of the Nicaraguan government.
Carolina Chimoy
Germany also has a long tradition as a mediator and supporting mediation and in an interview the German Vice Foreign Minister told me that Germany had even offered to collaborate, contribute, assist in mediating a possible Peace Dialogue in Nicaragua, if the government needed it and asked for it. Would you be prepared to accept help with mediation from Germany?
President Daniel Ortega
The best help that can be offered at the moment by nations like Germany, or the international community, the Spanish President has spoken on this too, is to tell the United States not to launch itself on Nicaragua again. Because they are the ones leading this, the spokesperson in the OAS represents the United States… talking about human rights!
Carolina Chimoy
But the Secretary General is Uruguayan. He’s not from the United States
President Daniel Ortega
But who sets the agenda is the one who pays for it and the United States puts up half of the funding for the OAS, so it sets the agenda.
Carolina Chimoy
Can the OAS and the Inter American Commission for Human Rights do their work here? Because we have received first hand information that groups like the Special Monitoring Mechanism for Nicaragua (MESENI) and so on are having difficulties, that they don’t get the help they need to visit prisons, speak to lawyers. Is there work being made difficult?
President Daniel Ortega
They have had the opportunity to visit the Judicial Auxiliary facility. They have already been there.
Carolina Chimoy
And the prisons too?
President Daniel Ortega
Yes. To the Judicial Auxiliary facility and also the prison where the people under arrest are held.
Carolina Chimoy
Can they also see the sentencing of certain…?
President Daniel Ortega
Their work is one of accompaniment, but they cannot come here and supplant the judicial authorities, nor the Public Prosecutor’s office. Or, put differently, if the reverse were the case, we would already have an intervention and we would then be in a situation where all the powers of the State would be disintegrating.
Carolina Chimoy
President, I ask again, the OAS, the European Union, Germany, the United Nations have all asked, suggested that bringing the elections be forward would be the best thing for Nicaragua. Are you prepared to bring forward the elections in this country?
President Daniel Ortega
First, they need to be clear that the one who came up with this idea is the US representative in the OAS. In other words it is a US decision taking advantage for the Sandinista government to go now.
Carolina Chimoy
Even the European Union has declared on the matter.
President Daniel Ortega
Then by taking that position they are not promoting Peace and stability in Nicaragua because that simply feeds the interventionist policy of the United States in Nicaragua.
Carolina Chimoy
So there aren’t going to be elections?
President Daniel Ortega
No. We had elections in 2016.
Carolina Chimoy
Which were much criticized though.
President Daniel Ortega
And we will have elections in 2021.
Carolina Chimoy
Not before. Are you going to remain President until 2021?
President Daniel Ortega
We will have the chance in 2021 to hold new elections and now in March next year we have elections on the Caribbean Coast because here we have an Autonomous system and they will vote to elect the Regional Councils, one in the north and one in the south.
Carolina Chimoy
You don’t accept Germany to mediate a Peace dialogue?
President Daniel Ortega
As I have said to you, at the moment the best help Germany can offer is to tell the United States not to meddle in Nicaragua as they have been doing . They have used the OAS and now they have also used the UN Security Council. Who has the main voice in the UN Security Council if not the US representative. It’s just her talking.
Carolina Chimoy
Let me talk about the country’s economy. Up until now Nicaragua had very good economic growth of 5% and now a fall is predicted of perhaps 6% this year, directly as a result of the conflict we have seen in the country. Nicaragua is in an economic crisis… do you receive money from Venezuela?
President Daniel Ortega
We have very good relations with Venezuela, exchange and cooperation.
Carolina Chimoy
Economic assistance?
President Daniel Ortega
Yes, Venezuela has helped Nicaragua a lot.
Carolina Chimoy
But now Venezuela too is in crisis so it won’t be able to continue helping Nicaragua much either. What are you going to do about the country’s economic situation
President Daniel Ortega
Well we’re coping with it. We have to cope with it. We can’t forever depend on the cooperation we receive from the international community.
Carolina Chimoy
Who cooperates with you from the international community?
President Daniel Ortega
Venezuela as I mentioned always cooperates with us. We have relations with every country in the world, more interaction with some, less with others and we have funding from international institutions which has helped us make progress. So for example Venezuela’s cooperation has remained steady even in these difficult conditions, doing what it can and we have placed some of our products there in Venezuela. It’s an exchange.
Carolina Chimoy
The economic stability you had up until now and security in the country which was until recently one of the most secure in Central Americais something that gave you a lot of support to continue as President, to continue in power. Now the economy is broken, or is breaking down, do you fear losing even more support among the Nicaraguan population?
President Daniel Ortega
The People are clear who damaged the economy and the People are clear it was not the government. The people who attacked the economy are the people who promoted the failed coup, who took the people hostage, completely barricading them in, imprisoning them for almost three months.
Carolina Chimoy
Mr President, what is your objective for the country?
President Daniel Ortega
The objective is to carry on working, to steadily recover the economy, using our own efforts, for example we have agricultural and livestock activity…
Carolina Chimoy
What is your objective as President? Could Nicaragua, given the current situation we just spoke about, socio-politically and economically, at some point end up as Venezuela is now?
President Daniel Ortega
We are working hard, like Venezuela is doing to recover the economy.
Carolina Chimoy
But Venezuela’s plan is not working very well.
President Daniel Ortega
And in Nicaragua’s case, we are also working hard to recover the economy.
Carolina Chimoy
My last question interests me very much. Can someone fall in love with power?
President Daniel Ortega
One thing is being in love with power, and another thing is being committed to the cause, with beliefs that lead one to continue fighting the battle even when you are not in power. That is to say, we left the government on April 25th, 1990 and went 17 years, struggling, participating in elections, and we never thought of provoking a coup, as the opposition, we never thought of provoking a coup.
Carolina Chimoy
But, President, we are no longer in a cold war.
President Daniel Ortega
We are in a hot war now. Now it is a hot war!
Carolina Chimoy
What is the hot war?
President Daniel Ortega
Does it seem a small thing to you what has been happening in the world recently, that is to say, what it means?
Carolina Chimoy
And in the hot war does the U.S. still blockade countries that are not friendly with the United States? Does this blockade exist in the hot war?
President Daniel Ortega
In a hot war, what you have are countries on the path of development who are always victims of hegemonic policies. Who destroyed the security zone that existed in Maghreb? Who destroyed it? And who provoked this enormous wave of immigrants which has drowned Europe, where Germany too has opened its doors, and how is the situation that is facing Germany as a result? Who broke the protection Europe had with the governments that were in place? Put another way, it was thanks to the the coups there, the coups d’état.
Carolina Chimoy
Just like so many migrants also leaving Nicaragua for Costa Rica….. Mr. President, why did you go so many years without giving an interview?
President Daniel Ortega
Well, I think one has to dedicate most time here talking with the population, talking with the people, attending to daily tasks.
Carolina Chimoy
But now you have started to give many interviews, why?
President Daniel Ortega
Because the situation has become an international topic. We knew that the United States was going to try to impose its hegemony on Nicaragua in this situation to try to get rid of the Nicaraguan government. And that’s what we are seeing, the United States at the front of the battle in the OEA, dictating the agenda of the OEA, and the United States in front of the Security Council dictating their agenda as well.
Carolina Chimoy
But you still haven’t finished saying with what interest the United States is dictating the agenda?
President Daniel Ortega
With the interest of removing the Sandinista Front from government. Why? Because we represent a small country that rebelled, which has historically rebelled against a giant, and this example to them is inadmissible. It’s an unacceptable example, because it is a bad example for them. Because, what will the others say? Look, this country that is so small, so impoverished, and they are fighting the Yankees for over a century.
Carolina Chimoy
But why would Nicaragua be so important to the United States in political terms?
President Daniel Ortega
For its location. Remember that they themselves classified us as the “back yard” of the United States.
Carolina Chimoy
Referring to all of Latin America.
President Daniel Ortega
No, in particular the sub region.
Carolina Chimoy
But not just Nicaragua.
President Daniel Ortega
No, the sub region, above all Central America. Let’s not even talk about Mexico! That is why the Mexicans talk about the situation they have to live with, the issue of migration and all of that.
Carolina Chimoy
Before we finish, you were commenting to me, but I would like to hear this answer through to the end. Why was Carlos Brenes arrested for presumed terrorism? You were explaining to me why you call it that, you define it like that, as terrorism.
President Daniel Ortega
Well, when someone attacks the police stations, when they capture, kidnap police officers, or kidnap civilian citizens for being Sandinistas, they take them from their homes, they kill them and afterwards they burn them, this is terrorism! As if it were inspired by ISIS.
Carolina Chimoy
And did Carlos Brenes do this Comandante? Like you, someone with whom you fought?
President Daniel Ortega
He was leading the groups there, later the judges will decide in the end.
Carolina Chimoy
Mr. President, but, so there is a clear division among Sandinistas, no?
President Daniel Ortega
As I told you, it’s that when we lost the elections, immediately the most radical Sandinistas turned anti-Sandinista and they formed a separate party. And they started to criticize.
Carolina Chimoy
When you lost the elections…
President Daniel Ortega
Yes, in 1990.
Carolina Chimoy
When they were moved up as well?
President Daniel Ortega
Yes, so they left, they went their own way, they began criticizing, so they began speaking ill of the Sandinista Front. Before, when we were in power, they were the most demanding, very radical, they spoke in the most radical language possible.
Carolina Chimoy
President, independently of what side they were on, people have died, independently if we are talking about 300 or 400 which is a large number of dead people, have you offered your condolences to the families and friends of these people?
President Daniel
Of course, we have shown our solidarity with all of the families, because it is painful when the blood of Nicaraguan brothers and sisters is spilled once again. We had achieved many advances after what was the period of war, the other war that they imposed on us, which also didn’t allow us to develop the country. Just as I told you, after the Revolutionary Triumph, we said let’s do literacy! And how did the United States respond to us? How did President Reagan respond to us? Imposing another war. And it was 50,000 in that period, 50,000 all of them Nicaraguan brothers and sister, some with the Contra, some with the Sandinista Front.
Carolina Chimoy
So in your opinion, the current president of the United States, Donald Trump is not acting differently?
President Daniel
First, I believe that the topic of Nicaragua is not on President Trump’s agenda. It is on the agenda of the politicians in Florida, which is the most well-known group.
Carolina Chimoy
But Florida is just one state in the United States.
President Daniel
So from there they join with other members of Congress and then they take initiatives to Congress, those initiatives are approved, remember they have an initiative called the Nica Act.
Carolina Chimoy
President, but you are saying that the United States is focused on Nicaragua and want to remove the Sandinistas from the government, but it is the state of Florida that wants to do this?
President Daniel
No…look it is the United States government, logically, it is the US State.
Carolina Chimoy
But you just said that Donald Trump doesn’t have Nicaragua on his agenda.
President Daniel
What I want to say is that, the source, the roots where this gains strength is the state of Florida. And not because there are one or two Congress members, simply there are Congress members, Senators who join with other Congress members, with other Senators, and then they advance with the legislative initiatives. Even when we had just taken office in the Nicaragua government, we were penalized and removed from the Millenium Challenge Account.
Carolina Chimoy
What are the next steps for Nicaragua?
President Daniel
To keep working for peace. That is what we are doing, working for peace. So that we don’t have any more deaths, this is the most important thing.
Carolina Chimoy
And doesn’t this start with dialogue?
President Daniel
We are in dialogue! We are in dialogue, talking, with whom? With the people who are the ones who might end up getting killed, but they are not going go out and kill each other.
Carolina Chimoy
What form does this dialogue take?
Daniel
We have practiced this here in the 1990s.
Carolina Chimoy
Is it at a round table, with all the parties negotiating?
President Daniel
No, no, no, it is in the neighborhoods, the communities, so that the people who confronted each other can converse, because there are people who remain polarized.
Carolina Chimoy
But won’t it be necessary, as is usually done in peace dialogues, to converse with the different parties, with those you call the coup organizers?
President Daniel
With the political parties, as such, they have their space in the National Assembly.
Carolina Chimoy
No, with the bishops, with the students, with the different fractions that you call coup organizers. Shouldn’t you negotiate peace with them?
President Daniel
It's that, they were a mixture, the political parties based in the National Assembly were mixed, and I would also say, that the major force that mobilized here were the bases of the political parties bases in the National Assembly, because they are the ones who are most articulated, most organized.
Carolina Chimoy
So there will not be a National Dialogue on a national level?
President Daniel
What I see in these moments is on a territorial level, that is to say, we already carried out the dialogue on a national level, now we are carrying out a dialogue on the territorial level.
Carolina Chimoy
Mr. President, thank you for this interview.