"In Nicaragua, only we Nicaraguans are entitled to resolve the issues that concern us Nicaraguans. In short, that is what the Foreign Agents Law says"

Submitted bytortilla onMié, 30/09/2020 - 09:11

Interview with Deputy Wálmaro Gutiérrez,
President of the Economic Commission of the National Assembly

with Alberto Mora, Revista En Vivo, Channel 4

September 28, 2020

 

Alberto Mora: We welcome Compañero Wálmaro Gutiérrez, Deputy to the National Assembly and President of the Assembly’s Economic Commission. Thank you for being with us, Wálmaro, thank you for joining us this morning. We want to talk about the Law on Registration of Foreign Agents, let's start with the object, why the Law at this time, what is the basis, from the legal point of view, legal, and what is the intention of the Law, and also the reasons for it?

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: Thank you very much. It is always a great pleasure to be here in your Program, and to have the opportunity to communicate with the Nicaraguan people, to give an account of the work we carry out as Public Officials , in this case, from the National Parliament.

We can inform the Nicaraguan people that, on September 22, 2020, we, the Deputies of the Sandinista National Liberation Front, were pleased to present a legislative initiative for the Regulation of Foreign Agents.

This proposed law was sent to the Commission of Production, Economy and Budget, for its corresponding consultation and reporting process. In this process of consultation and hearing opinions, I want to make it absolutely clear from the outset that due to so much misinformation and distortion that has been woven around this Initiative, this initiative is intended to be widely consulted, not only with public sector officials, but also a process of consultation is being opened, where any member or agent of the private sector who has an interest in contributing or clarifying their concerns or doubts about this Initiative, the Commission of Economy, Finance and Budget of the National Assembly will be pleased to receive them.

So, the first element that must be clear is that this is not an initiative that will only be discussed with the government sector, but will have a broad consultation process for its discussion and opinion in the National Assembly.

A second element that is important to highlight: this initiative for a Law on Regulation of Foreign Agents has a fundamentally constitutional motivation, and I would like to start from what is expressly stated in Article One of the Political Constitution of the Republic of Nicaragua. It says: "Independence, sovereignty and national self-determination are inalienable rights of the people and the foundations of the Nicaraguan nation. Any foreign interference in the internal affairs of Nicaragua or any attempt to undermine those rights, attempts against the Life of the People. It is the duty of all Nicaraguans to preserve and defend these rights.

What does this mean? When we read this Article of the Political Constitution, which is not by chance the First Article, we make clear beyond any shadow of a doubt, that one of the Principles or one of the constitutional paradigms on which the Rule of Law of the Nicaraguan Nation is based, is the Independence, Sovereignty, Self-determination of the People, and a total, categorical and decisive rejection of any attempt at foreign interference in internal or domestic affairs of National Policy.

After that, we also have another point that I think is valuable for the Nicaraguan People to know, which is Article 8 of the Sovereign Security Law from the year 2015. This Law of Sovereign Security talks about the risks and threats to the Sovereign Security of the Nicaraguan Nation, and Article 8 says: "For the purposes of this Law, the following are considered threats to the National Sovereignty or to the Sovereign Security And in number 7 it refers to: "Acts of foreign interference in national affairs that may violate the fundamental principles established in the Political Constitution of the Republic of Nicaragua".

Why do I talk to you about these two great tools, the Constitution and the Sovereign Security Law? Because this is not even something of importance only to Nicaragua; this is something that all or the great majority of the Nations of the World maintain in the sovereign exercise of the defense of National Sovereignty. This is not only the case in Nicaragua, but for many countries as we will see later on.

However, the fundamental objective pursued by the Law of Regulation of Foreign Agents is to establish a legal framework that will regulate natural or legal persons that respond to foreign interests and funding, and use this funding to carry out activities that lead to interference by foreign governments or organizations in the internal affairs of Nicaragua, putting at risk the sovereign security of our country.

Therefore, this is a tool that is in total agreement with Article 1 of the Political Constitution and Article 8, number 7, of the Law of Sovereign Security of the Republic of Nicaragua.

So, what is it in the end that is being pursued? To avoid this type of funding and means under the cover of Natural or Legal Persons being used by foreign governments, multinational companies or other international organizations or bodies, to exploit these means and funding to influence in a negative way and undermine the exercise of the Sovereignty and Democracy that corresponds only and exclusively to us Nicaraguans, to develop within the National Territory.

Alberto Mora: We're talking about the money that enters  for purposes of conspiracy, for example.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: No more, no less! Exactly that. Now, it is imperative to clarify that this is not an issue of importance only to Nicaragua. It is very much an issue that has been reviewed and developed for decades in different countries of the world, and in different countries, both those with what are called leftist governments and those with what are called right-wing governments.

And I can give you different examples... I can mention Cuba, with Law Number 54 of the Law of Associations, and Resolution 5386 of the Regulations of Associations, or our sister country Guatemala with Decree 2003 of the Congress of the Republic of Guatemala; in Costa Rica, the Law of Associations, which is Law 218; Venezuela, the Law of Self-Defense of Political Sovereignty and National Self-Determination, of December 23, 2010; Bolivia, the Law on the Awarding of Legal Personalities, which is of March 19, 2013; Mexico, National Security Law, January 31, 2005; Russia, Law on Foreign Agents, 2012; Spain, Organic Law 1-2002, March 22, Law Regulating Associations; Israel, Law on Foreign Financing of Non-Governmental Organizations, July 16, 2016; Hungary, Law Regulating Non-Governmental Organizations; Egypt, Law 70, 2017; United States, Law on Registration of Foreign Agents, commonly referred to as the FARA Law. And finally, for the entire European Community there is a regulation that is Regulation 1141 of the year 2014, approved by the European Parliament and the European Council on October 22, 2014, on the Statute and Financing of Political Parties and European Political Foundations.

In other words, what am I telling you? Here they have been trying to raise the idea that we are inventing, slipping out from our  sleeves, a tool supposedly to persecute or repress supposed political activities within the country, something that is, in any case, false, lacking any basis or foundation with regard to the legality what we are proposing here.

What we are doing is simply creating a tool that allows us to ensure or prevent foreign powers, countries, governments, agencies or organizations from developing acts of interference in our domestic affairs or national domestic policy, something that not only Nicaragua seeks to do and condemn, but very much something that international organizations of all kinds also condemn

There are Resolutions of the United Nations; there are Resolutions of the Organization of American States; there are Rulings of the Highest Court of Justice in The Hague, where they condemn, in a clear and categorical way, all these acts of interference, by any Government, I mean by any foreign Government, in the domestic matters of another Country.

So, we can see established, for example, in the Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, of December 26, 1933, which states categorically: "No State has the right to intervene in the internal and external affairs of another." Period! And it's not me saying so, but the United Nations in 1933. And then the OAS, in 1948, in its Charter of Organization, says: "No State or group of States has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for whatever reason, in the internal or external affairs of any other type of State".

Then comes the United Nations with its "Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Internal Affairs of Another State and the Protection of its Independence and Sovereignty," which is Resolution 2131, which states in its Number 2: "No State may apply or encourage the use of economic, political, or any other type of measures to coerce another State to subordinate the exercise of its sovereign rights or to obtain from it advantages of any kind".

In other words, I think this is not just a law but also entirely constitutional, because it has a constitutional foundation, it is framed within the Principle of Legality, it is a tool that allows Nicaraguans to defend the Sovereignty and Self-Determination of the Nicaraguan People. It is framed within the Rule of Law and has all the characteristics guaranteeing that it is a legal instrument with all the relevant related constitutionality and legality.

Alberto Mora: Well, it is well known here that millions of dollars came in to finance the failed coup attempt, and it was well known, because even a lady came out saying where is all the money? That the money had been stolen. They were all accusing each other of being thieves.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: And among themselves were accusing each other of being thieves in the news media, and in social media.

Alberto Mora: And their whole specialty is ... "Political Incidence", "Promotion of Democracy", "Human Rights", "Freedom of the Press", but we knew very well what that was, it was to fund themselves and they ended up financing the roadblocks and the atrocities we know all too well. These people are the ones who are really worriednow, because they recieve money that comes for a political purpose, and they openly say it: We are going to give so much money to such-and-such one to go do such-and-such.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: Of course. But you see, being a foreign agent as such, is not a crime, because in this globalized world, where multinational companies for example, have so many expressions in different countries around the world, it is common that the subsidiaries of these multinational companies use the services of professionals from different disciplines to defend their interests within the National Territory. This is very common and  is done in any country in the world, from the United States to Saudi Arabia, everyone does this.

What does this law tell you? "Sir, if you come here and are going to represent a legitimate interest of a foreign State or a foreign Organization or Agency, you can perfectly well do it, come and register". Then you register, you prove that you are defending a legitimate interest and there is no problem of legality, if you do not question the legality of the Country, and then you can simply carry out your activity without any problem.

Ah, but when these resources that are supposed to be channeled through a Non-Governmental Organization to carry out studies for strengthening of Democracy in the Country, and then suddenly you see that these resources are not being used to carry out Studies for the strengthening of Democracy, but in fact to undermine Democracy in our Country, to promote conflict, let's speak clearly, to promote hatred, to promote death, to promote disinformation, to promote the collapse of the National Economy, practically to conspire against the sovereign security of the Nation, and it's not just me saying so, the Sovereign Security Law says it since 2015, these are simply acts that are at odds with the law and, therefore, this person must be prosecuted with the tools that Nicaragua's legal system has, which are the Nicaraguan Courts of Justice. So, that must be made absolutely clear.

Now, there is also another element that I am interested in highlighting in this Law of Foreign Agents, because the manipulation, to which we are accustomed, of La Prensa tells any number of lies trying to justify saying that thelaw affects everyone, which is outrageously untrue. Well, this same law has exceptions: For example, eexpatriate pensioners (...) are exempted from the application of this law; persons who receive family remittances are not subject to this law; foreign productive and commercial companies are not subject to this law; factories and chains of supermarkets and foreign investments, their workers and service providers are not subject to this law; and persons who carry out economic, commercial or productive activities based on international treaties and agreements such as Free Trade Agreements or association agreements. In other words, Treaties are not affected, Investment is not affected, Trade is not affected.

That is to say, that any Natural or Legal Person that comes here to represent a transnational company in our Country, can do it perfectly well, because  it is a legal action, it is a legitimate action. What do we say? "Come, friend, declare, register your activity, and with great pleasure develop your activity."

What's more, here I was reading about some Non-Governmental Organizations, saying, "what an outrage, that now they are going to be held accountable!" Law 147, the Law of Legal Entities, non-profit organizations, which are created by the National Assembly of the Republic of Nicaragua, clearly states two fundamental things: First, that the Non-Governmental Organizations are apolitical in nature. This is clearly stated in the Law, and that is also stated in the Statutes and Charter of each of these Non-Governmental Organizations.

So, for them to come here with the argument that with this Law you are going to suppress or restrict the exercise of political activity by the Non-Governmental Organizations, is absurd, because the Non-Governmental Organizations were not created to engage in political activity in the country. Law 147 says so, of course, and has done for many, many years!

And secondly, it clearly states that the resources executed by these Non-Governmental Organizations must be solely and exclusively within the framework of what their Bye Laws allow them to do. In other words,  if we, you and I, make a non-profit organization to help protect or prevent street children from falling into drugs, for argument's sake, I can think of one of many that come to the National Assembly, and I go to an international organization and I get resources for that, for Nicaraguan children, but I come, I take these resources and I begin to campaign and engage in political actions internally, to destabilize the Sovereign Security of Nicaragua ... That's impossible! That's illegal!

What's more, this law doesn't say anything new about the body that has to oversee the actions of non-governmental organizations, because, at present, the Ministry of the Interior is already the competent authority, that's where they have to go to register, that's where they have to report annually, or quarterly, or biannually. There is a Resolution that is an internal Regulation that operates for the non profit Legal Persons.In other words all these matters are already contemplate in our domestic legal arragements.

What does the Foreign Agents Law specifically state? That Natural or Legal Persons who are in the country and who represent foreign interests should go and register.

Now, it may be that these foreign interests are seeking to undermine democracy, to weaken the rule of law, to threaten the sovereign security of Nicaraguans, meaning our peace, tranquility and progress; When these are indeed the actions they engage in, damaging highways and streets, burning down town halls, burning down police stations, in other words, all those kinds of barbarity, these are crimes, gentlemen, and they have to go to the common courts to be dealt with and, therefore, this foreign agent who is carrying out this type of action, simply cannot operate in Nicaragua.

And that is not something ofimportance only to Nicaragua, I already read you the long list of different countries of the world, among which are, for those who may be watching or listening to us, the champions of Western Democracy in our country, for example, the United States, which since 1933 has the FARA Law.

A few days ago I was reading a Spanish MEP who came out saying that the Nicaraguan state should reconsider and that no such law should be approved. Well, the day that he manages to repeal the very law, of the same nature in Spain, and that he manages to repeal in the European Parliament the law of this nature which exists and which applies to all the countries of the European Community, then he will have justification and moral authority to be able to offer that opinion.

Alberto Mora: In fact the guy in question was an arms dealer, as it turns out; now he styles himself a democrat after he was selling armaments around the world.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: Ah! Ans maybe someone can explain why it  is good there is a FARA law in North America to defend the Sovereign Security of the United States, but bad that there is a Law of Regulation of Foreign Agents to defend the Sovereign Security of Nicaragua. What else does the American State have that the Nicaraguan State does not have? One is as much a State as the other is, and we both have the right to defend our Sovereign Security.

Alberto Mora: In the United States the people promoting the coup here would never be given a second chance they would go to jail with three life sentences.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: They'd never get a second chance! You saw what happened with RT and Al Jazeera. But in any case, I'm not telling you it's wrong, it's a sovereign exercise, they're doing what they are entitled to do... Perfect! Let the Europeans make their Laws to defend their Sovereign Security, great! But why should it be good that they have their tools for the defense of the Sovereign Security of their States, and it is bad that we Nicaraguans have a tool that can also defend the Sovereign Security of our Country?

Alberto Mora: The issue here is that all the funding agencies that were created in the 80s were created by the CIA to provide finance, and what the CIA used to do as an Agency, they now do through these organizations that are dedicated to promoting and funding situations or political actions to overthrow governments, to try to disrupt the people.

Wálmaro, the truth is that, according to what you have made known, there are well over five thousand NGOs, but only a few are conspirators. Of these organizations founded by the CIA, there are a few that receive money, right? And they are family businesses, with presidencies for life, even an agency where the Minister of the Interior at that time, whose name escapes me now, showed that there was money laundering there as well. They founded an NGO with four people, but all the services were provided by the family of the President of the NGO, who provided all the money there. In effect, it is a business... I was telling you during the break, that someone had said in the 90's: "Wise up, start an NGO; so you don't have to work", and then it was called "non-profit", but you got paid $10,000. But the point is, these people, clearly involved in political conspiracies and political interests, financed by foreign governments, can they still be candidates? Explain what that's about, and how it affects political parties.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: Remember that the issue of political parties is not covered by this Law of Foreign Agents, because, both political parties and also diplomatic representations are different cases that have their own regulations, but in the particular case of the issue of the inability to elect the representatives of Foreign Agents, maybe you heard what I just said, because it's as dreadful as it sounds.

That is, it must seem to you, as a Nicaraguan, no longer as a Sandinista, but as a Nicaraguan, and it is a question for all Nicaraguans, do you think, that someone who represents foreign interests in the State of the Republic of Nicaragua, can hold an office via popular election to represent the interests of the Nicaraguan People? Impossible! As the Holy Scriptures say: either you are with God, or you are with the Devil.

Who is your boss? My boss is the People of Nicaragua. The one who pays me my salary is the People of Nicaragua. But it cannot be that if I were paid my salary, for example, by a Colombian multinational, and suddenly I arrive at the National Assembly of the Republic of Nicaragua, tell me, whose interests will I defend in the National Assembly of Nicaragua, if I am being paid by the Colombians? Logically, there is an obvious incompatibility.

That's why the Law states that for these people who register as Foreign Agents, as a matter of basic sense, of common sense, a person with one finger's worth of forehead can understand this, they cannot hold a public Office until after one year of having suspended or finished their registration as a foreign agent in the Country. It is logical and complete common sense.

Alberto Mora: The Law is actually kind, because it states only one year.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: One year is not enough. But it gives a clear idea that these people, that is, whose interests are they going to respond to when they reach public office? Okay, if you are paid by the gringos, if you are paid by the Canadians, if you are paid by the Europeans. Please, who is going to thinks it possible that you are going to efficiently represent the interests of Nicaraguans in those public offices, as Mayor, as Vice Mayor, as Councillor, as legislator, as President of the Republic? That is the reality.

I believe that in this country after 150 years of our Republic's history we all know each other and we all know perfectly well who throughout history has responded to foreign interests. And look, it's like a curse, those names have been repeating for 150 years, and they still repeat today. That is the reality, and I do not write history, I only read it, because that is the reality.

So, at this point in the game they come and tell me that it is an outrage, that we are restricting their right to participate in politics. Look, first of all, no one is being denied the right to participate in politics; what we are saying is, if we are going to do politics, if we are going to develop politics within our country, we are going to do it among Nicaraguans, and as brothers and sisters we are going to agree on where we are going to take this country.

But we cannot allow interests outside of the State of the Republic of Nicaragua to come here and decide who is going to be President of the Republic, who is going to be a Deputy before the National Assembly, who is going to be a Minister, who is going to be a Mayor, who is going to be a City Councilor. Really, that is outright cynicism! We cannot allow foreign financing to impose public officials on us. That's what this law is saying. Let's see, what Nicaraguan who loves his country is going to oppose a premise of that nature?

Alberto Mora: History, and I am going to refer to a precise fact, gives an account of the intervention, of the interference. In 1990 the gringos came and said: It is not Enrique Bolaños who runs, it is Doña Violeta Chamorro. They themselves have said so. The gringos said, she's the one!

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: Yes, it is that they have no ambiguity. It's funny, but it's sad too, really.

Alberto Mora: And right now, among this cat and dog fight they are having, they say: Here the one who is going to resolve things is the gringo, he is the one who is going to say, this is it! In other words, history is not wrong?

 

Permit me, I want to say something so that people won't get you wrong. Of those 5,000 or a little more than 5,000 NGOs, the ones involved are about twenty, for all I know, maybe fewer, maybe not even 20. So, the rest of the NGO sector who dedicate themselves to doing good for the people, who have their own NGO, or whose NGO works to take care of the children, as you said, or to look for healthcare, or to see the old people, those don't have any problem.

 

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: NGOs that attend to nursing homes... No problem! Because they also carry out the function for which the National Assembly created them. That's the point, man. It's that people sometimes create confusiion deliberately. Unfortunately, I was reading an regrettable communiqué from these gentlemen of COSEP, which says that we are restricting the exercise of political functions.

And where in the world... because COSEP is a nonprofit legal entity ... Do you think that it was created to play politics? No! In theory they are apolitical, but there they are, in fact, many of them were directly involved in the failed coup d'état, and we must be clear, that Communiqué is a pack of lies,  the only thing they want is to distract and confuse national opinion.

The fundamental objective of this law is to prevent interference in the internal affairs or domestic policy of our country by funding from governments, States, international organizations or organizations of any other foreign nature. Period!

If you are not using foreign resources to develop activities in conflict with the Constitution and the Law, you do not have to worry about anything. People with nothing to answer for, don't fear being asked! And the people of Nicaragua know this and are clear about it.

Alberto Mora: In addition, those who are making a fuss are the very ones who receive money for conspiracy, let's put it clearly, through programs that they give elegant names and for which the money ends up we know very well where, a part is pocketed by them, as they say, and the rest funds the conspiracy. Because it is politics they are engaged in.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: I would even like to publicly acknowledge and congratulate the work that the Ministry of the Interior has done on this whole issue of regulating Non-Governmental Organizations created by the National Assembly. Because the truth is that in recent times these particular Non-Governmental Organizations had been practically denaturalized, they did not do the work for which the National Assembly had created them, some of them, you have already said, they do not even number 20, but with the power to make a lot of noise and do a lot of damage, they practically became a modus vivendi.

 

What you said a while ago: "Wise up, create your NGO...", that is, they are people who for dozens of years have given up on work and created their NGO so as to get a monthly salary, and not an insignificant one in many of these cases, and who then start wanting to take part in politics, when Non-Governmental Organizations are prevented, they are prohibited, by Law, from developing political activity in the Country. Why? For a very simple reason: Because there are other legal entities called Political Parties. Political Parties are those created, by the Constitution and the Law, to develop and exercise the function of political action in the State of the Republic of Nicaragua, and everybody knows that. That is the reality.

Alberto Mora: That's clear. How will the political parties be affected? Not at all, political parties are for doing that, to do politics, to aspire to the government and so on. However, if they get involved in other matters...

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: Or if they are being financed by a foreign state, another country. And they already have the relevant law... Ah, we are going to close the NGOs! Hold on, if Law 147 for many years, even decades, already states the three major reasons for which an NGO can be shut down: one, by committing illegal acts . And take note,  two, for disturbing public order, and three, for carrying out activities that do not correspond to the purposes for which they were constituted. That is what Law 147 says, it is not what the Foreign Agents Law says, it is what the NGOs own Law of more than 20 years ago says; so we are not talking about anything new under the sun.

The truth is that, when I hear, or see and read the virulent reactions of these foreign agents, for their interference in domestic matters, because that has to be made clear, and when I look at the reactions of La Prensa and all these people and some television media, I say, well, yes we are on the right track, because the truth is that within the framework of Reconciliation, Peace and Stability, we still had pending matters on a series of issues like this one, for which we should have legislated long ago.

Alberto Mora: The other day I remembered that the late Antonio Lacayo, in an interview with Don Carlos Briceño, also deceased, when there was an internal lawsuit with the relatives who co-owned his newspaper, said: No, no, so-and-so (he was referring to one of the directors, one of the owners) was paid by the CIA, monthly, was maintained by the CIA! And the CIA, he said, funded the payroll.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: For example, imagine, in any country in the world, does it seem right, or wrong, to prohibit non-profit organizations from receiving anonymous donations, for example? Might they not be, for example, resources from drug trafficking and organized crime? Could it not be that these Natural Persons or Legal Entities are being used to channel resources from organized crime, transnational crime and drug trafficking, and so are circulating narco-money into the Nicaraguan State?

That is why this law is clear in saying: Anonymous donations are strictly forbidden! And did you know that this same provision exists in the United States, in Europe, in Venezuela, in Argentina, in Chile, and in all the countries of the world? Ah, no, but here in Nicaragua it is a sin, here you can receive them, and it is legal, it has to be legal, because if you not then we are attacking democracy! Really, such claims are an outrage!

Alberto Mora: People ask, how do these people live if they don't work, you know? Really, it's a question out on the street, these people are used to traveling overseas, how do they do it if they don't work? I mean, the situation is pretty bad and even so they appear to be doing very well. These are questions anyone can ask, and say, "where does their money come from?"

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: But it is also regrettable, because it is a typical act of treason. What we have to do is speak clearly to Nicaraguans. When we speak of a Nicaraguan who allows himself to be used by foreign interests and who becomes a channel for financing instability, for financing death, for financing the destruction of his own country, how can you not call them a traitor to the country? Let us speak clearly, really, many of these people have committed treason to their country.

Listen, one thing is that I am against what you think or how you think ... Okay, if you don't want to share my opinion, it's your right, since this is a State based on the rule of law, here there is freedom of expression and opinion; if you don't share the opinion of we Sandinistas, great; if I don't share the opinions of the Liberals, great, I have my right not to give my opinion like the Liberals do. But one thing is that we have differences of opinion, and another thing is that because of the differences of opinion that we have, then I come and I burn down your house, or I kill your brother, and I take your cousin and I paint her in a public square or I set fire to your father. These are actions that run completely against the nature of Nicaraguans, clearly, because Nicaraguans have never been and should never be like that.   

So we cannot allow these acts, which are atypical and that contradict the very nature of Nicaraguans, to become customary practices and common behavior. Because there is an axiom in Law, which says: Usages become customs and customs become Law. We cannot permit these actions to become the Law in this country; on the contrary, we must promote Concord, Dialogue and Fraternity, even within diversity. We may well disagree, but it is one thing for me to disagree with you, and it is another thing for me to set up a roadblock and damage a highway, or to kill anyone who wants to pass that roadblock, just because they think differently to me.

That seems to me inorrect... That's not right! To be every day and all day promoting hatred, just because Alberto Mora thinks differently from me, that is not correct. Besides, we Nicaraguans are tired of this kind of politics. I believe that we Nicaraguans deserve a better future.

Alberto Mora: Clearly. And we have to take that into account, also, that there is a whole program that the US authorities themselves have made known to continue their conspiracy, using these people.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: But what's more, just imagine, look at what they are saying, they have no resources to carry out political or electoral work. But who finances the political parties' electoral campaigns? The State of the Republic of Nicaragua through the General Budget of the Republic. So they should not be thinking of extending their hand to the foreign boss asking for money for acts of internal interference.

Alberto Mora: On the other hand, it must be said that this Law has been proposed in time, and quite fairly, so as to avoid precisely that, so that they do not have money to pay political parties so when they achieve office,the one who put up the money cannot say, "Right, you won now you owe me". That's what the law is for, isn't it? To guarantee the non-interference of the private sector or foreign governments.

Wálmaro Gutiérrez: That's right, because in Nicaragua only we Nicaraguans are entitled to resolve the issues that concern us Nicaraguans. In short, that is what the Foreign Agents Law says.

Alberto Mora: Thank you very much, Wálmaro.