Interview with Compañero Aldo Díaz Lacayo, Writer and Historian, with Alberto Mora
En Vivo Magazine, Channel 4
February 1, 2019
Alberto Mora
We are pleased to receive Don Aldo Díaz Lacayo this morning; thank you Don Aldo for being with us this morning, and what better moment with the start of Commemoration Month of the assassination of General Augusto C. Sandino.
85 years on now, an event that did not stop, despite his murder, it did not stop the struggle of the Nicaraguan People for their Independence; because let's remember that here before 1979 the gringos ran things through their "chavalo", the Mr. Somoza who was initially the founder of the Dictatorship, Anastasio Somoza García, and Roosevelt said: He is a son of bitch, but he is our son of bitch.
This is the beginning of the month of commemoration of the murder of General Augusto C. Sandino.
And that man, precisely Sandino, was the one who inspired the whole struggle of the Nicaraguan People and many others of course, and in 1979 comes the Triumph of the Revolution. At this distance of 85 years, the validity of Sandino, I would like to begin with Don Aldo, the validity of Sandino, his Example of Dignity and Anti-imperialism.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Let’s do kind of dissection in Time. I would like to begin by saying that Sandino is the greatest recognized and yet unknown in the history of the liberation of Latin America; everyone recognizes him, but no one knows him. That is an apparent contradiction, why does everyone recognize him? Simply because of his extraordinary achievement, whose significance nobody can erase, while his work itself was erased. That is the problem.
So even though his work was erased, in 1955 Gregorio Selser, an Argentinean who is the most Latin American of all Argentines, and also Nicaraguan in the first place, looking for Documents to write about the Guatemalan Revolution that had fallen in 1954, after being attacked by the gringos, every time he looked for papers about the Guatemalan Revolution he came across Sandino, and he began to compile and compile and compile, and he wrote "Sandino, General of Free Men".
From 1955, and more specifically in my particular case at the end of 1955 I was in exile, someone from Honduras who had gone to participate in an important event in Buenos Aires brought me the book as a gift, and that book, not mine, here in Nicaragua they mimeographed it and began to reproduce it. Why do I say all this? Because I think it's important to realise how we began to learn about Sandino. If we had not learned about Sandino we would never have used him as a vehicle to apply the Universal Principles of the Revolution in Nicaragua.
The merit is Carlos Fonseca's. Why is it a merit? Because talking to the Peoples of Latin America about International Socialism, about the Founders of International Socialism, about the Principles of the International Revolution, doesn't tell them anything; but if you talk about a National Hero of the magnitude of Sandino, it's an extraordinary vehicle; but it turns out it wasn't just a vehicle, it was the banner, it was the objective.
So to finish this first part, Sandino became the Symbol of Nationalist and Anti-imperialist Struggle from the very moment of his assassination, but we know what happened, 20 years, confiscated and falsified. It is very important to know that for 20 years Sandino was confiscated and falsified, and that confiscation, and above all the falsification, gave rise to a negative, distorted, stigmatized image of Sandino in Nicaragua, in Nicaragua! Such that to talk about Sandino was to like swearings, because Sandino's life and work were confiscated and falsified.
Alberto Mora
They erased it from National History.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Totally! They didn't just erase it, they falsified it!
Alberto Mora
In addition, Somoza made that book, "The Calvary of the Segovias" which remembering Roosevelt also received Somoza Garcia there in Washington, but he wrote that book which is an outrage, . It's an outrage, because in the Introduction the writer Somoza says, I remember: "This book is entirely impartial," and he begins to call Sandino whatever he wants.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
But the falsification doesn't start with Somoza, it starts with Stimson.
Alberto Mora
They learned from the gringos, yes, of course.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
So our merit, I assume it and we assume it, Carlos' merit is our merit, of having claimed Sandino, of having put him in his correct dimension, of projecting him as an active man, not just a soldier, but also as a Thinker, someone who is not known as such, that aspect of Sandino. And when we speak of Sandino and we begin to speak of his Work, a kind of insurgent affinity arises, one might say, in Nicaragua's people.
Alberto Mora
Don Aldo, you speak of the Guerrilla, the Patriot and the Thinker, and many people say: How was Sandino able to have that vision with little study, with the limitations of that Time, and to gather all that Legacy that is really extraordinary?
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
I think that is the most important question to answer, because within Sandino's falsification there is the idea that he was ignorant, "chapiollo" to put it in our words, that he knew nothing! A successful man, I would say fortunately, who was also accompanied by luck. But it is a very important question that must be answered, Sandino's Political-Ideological formation is infinitely superior to the average of his time, and also superior to the current average, no longer infinitely superior, but superior.
Leaders do not emerge from nothing, that is a Universal Principle: Leaders do not emerge from nothing! There are two important elements to explain the emergence of a Leader: the first is the historical substratum, and the second is formation and the will to fight.
Sandino had to live an extraordinary historical substratum, as you mentioned, the second milestone is Zeledón, but the first is Zelaya.
So Sandino was both Zelaya's victim and Zelaya's beneficiary; that's where personal formation really begins and I would say that even his ideological formation too, maybe it's an exaggeration but it's true. Why was he a victim? Because he lived in misery; and Zelaya correctly the first thing he did was to guarantee and support agricultural production. From that perspective of support for agricultural production, farmers had a kind of social subsidy, they could hire the workers in advance, and you had to fulfill that early contract and if you didn't fulfill it, they threw you in jail.
So Sandino lives from 1895 until 1906 when he meets his father, we are talking about 11 years, 11 years living dependent on his mother in misery, in absolute misery. That period is the victim's period; then imagine how much this boy could have learned in that terrible environment of poverty, the struggle to get out of poverty, from which they couldn't escape.
Alberto Mora
Observing the injustices and outrages with the mother.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
They say "small town, big hell." So obviously what was Niquinohomo at that time? 2 blocks, 4 streets, "and about 500 huts" says Sandino; then maybe every day they said to him: You are Gregorio's son, you are Gregorio's son, you are Gregorio's son, etc., etc., etc. But then, based on that rumor, Socrates and Sandino make a sibling relationship, but undercover.
Suddenly, when the mother meets someone and decides to leave for Granada, he does not follow her. That's where the demonstration of the will for autonomy begins, that's where the vocation for self-confidence begins. Then, in those 2 blocks and 4 streets everybody sees each other every day, and he takes advantage of the fact that his father passes by and he asks him if he is his son, and the father says yes. There he begins to benefit from the Liberal Revolution, because the father was a farmer.
So we are talking that from 1895 he was born until 1917, because he lives with his father 11 years, we are talking about 1900 to 1917, plus from 1900 back to 1895, 22 years; then in those 11 years with his father he learns all that can be learned in Business Administration from a self-taught point of view, and he was successful!
Alberto Mora
He began to sell grains and was successful in the trade.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
In the grain trade and in supporting his father on the farms he was very successful, so much so that society had to recognize him as Augusto Sandino.
After 1917, and why I told you that it's the most important question to answer, he embarks on a merchant ship for 3 years, and his work as a merchant marine mechanic, which is what his work meant, for 3 years, was not in just any year, because he embarks in 1917 and doesn't return to Nicaragua until 1920.
But 1917 and 1918 are the last two years of the First World War, and that means that all the ports were seized, that's the right word, sequestered they said, for the United States, for their own safety, because German ships came here. Can you imagine what learning in that context means during the first 2 years of being at sea? It's an extraordinary thing.
But in addition there is a very important thing, before embarking, that is, he leaves in 1917, in 1916 there is a fierce discussion in Nicaragua about the Chamorro-Bryan Treaty; you have no idea the discussion that that caused in Nicaragua. Of course, when I say Nicaragua we are talking about a very small Nicaragua in terms of population and a very small but very enlightened Middle Class, so the discussion was terrible and Sandino's father participates in the discussion and they throw him in jail.
So Sandino already had a very clear idea of how the United States had imposed an anti-national situation in Nicaragua in relation to the Canal. And what do you think was Sandino's first impression when he passed through the Panama Canal? Can you imagine that impression with that background? It was an extraordinary thing.
So there on that trip he learns that Latin America is literally held prisoner by the United States; second, that the Panama Canal is not Panama’s. It confirms the great discussion of the previous year. And Sandino says that he visited many countries, we still don't know which countries he got to know.
Alberto Mora
In those three years?
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Yes. Plus he says he came to the United States. So we are talking about 3 years that were a time of extraordinary Political-Ideological Formation, neither you nor I, nor anyone else has that formation. Then he returns to Nicaragua, and has a conflict that for security reasons force him to leave.
Alberto Mora
Because of the beans dispute, right?
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
No, rather for the gunshot. But where would he go? The most inaccessible part to get to was the Caribbean Coast, because getting to the Caribbean Coast was impossible.
Alberto Mora
Even today; until now when the highways are being built.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
We're getting there finally. For the first time in 500 years; but, well, imagine that. But, through the twists and turns of life, he has to make a living somehow and he starts working with North American Companies, there he realizes the Worker-Boss relationship, not only the Worker-Boss relationship but also the company exploitation protected by the Government.
And in that same situation, because he is following events in Honduras, and he is following events in Guatemala, and as they developed he found the situation much more critical, much more repressive, oppressive, of the workers for the companies and that the relationship of the foreign companies with the Governments was a situation of subordination on the part of the Governments.
Can you imagine what this training means? Who among us has had the opportunity to work in these conditions of exploitation protected by a "Government"? But well, it is important because in every concrete case, in Honduras for example, when he arrives he is discussing the Reform of the Liberal Party that is in the Opposition, and the Leader of that Party was an extraordinary man, already "remuerto", of course.
But the issue, the fundamental idea of the Party's reorganization was the Mexican Revolution; those discussions were happening every day in Honduras, and the North Coast Ports were the fundamental part of Honduras because the banana companies were there. And Sandino participates in all of that.
Then when he arrives in Guatemala, in Quiriguá, the situation arises that there had been deaths there caused by the government beforehand, but he arrives then and at that moment the Guatemalan Communist Party that depended on the Communist Party of Mexico was the one who kept on fighting, muted, but fighting, in Quiriguá.
So that's where the story jumps to Mexico. When he arrives in Mexico he already arrives with a Political-Ideological Formation against the Government, against Governments! In favor of the Working Class.
Alberto Mora
Those 3 years are the ones that are not known much; that is to say, everyone says his awakening came in Mexico.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
I’ll get to that. Then, when he arrives in Mexico he finds the opposite situation: that the Workers and Peasants were fighting in favor of the Revolution, against the former owners, against the foreign capital controlling the Oil Companies; that’s why he has been working with the Oil Companies since he arrived. It was not accidental, it was because the situation of Quiriguá directs him towards the oil area, which was the area of Tamaulipas and Veracruz, there is a border between Tamaulipas and Veracruz that is called La Huasteca, and there he stayed for 3 years.
But, this point is enormously important, he participates in all the Study Circles from 1923 to 1926. He says that in the Study Circles he got to know all the leaders of Latin America, he studied them! He was a very studious man, and had no vices, neither smoked nor drank.
Do you know what that means? Defend... Well, he never actively participated in the defense, but he had an ideological participation, more correctly, via his studies, and of course he goes so far as to say that his Revolution, later, he says that his war is the daughter of the Mexican Revolution. So that suggests the idea that his preparation was only 3 years in Mexico, and we're actually talking about 1917 to 1926, 9 years of study; and of course an intelligent man, a brilliant, tireless reader, that man read whatever you care to name.
So when he returns to Nicaragua... Why does he return to Nicaragua? Because the Mexicans taunted him that the Nicaraguans were traitors, that they endured the invasion, that they endured everything and did nothing.
There is one very important thing to know: why is Sandino returning to Nicaragua? The Mexican Revolution began in 1910, but in 1917 it began to be institutionalized with the Promulgation of the 1917 Constitution. So, he was well versed in the defense of the Mexican Revolution.
Then, those two aspects, the Social and the Economic, were the fundamental banners of struggle, because one part referred to work, another part referred to the ownership of land, soil and subsoil. It was an extraordinary lesson.
Alberto Mora
Advanced for the time, very advanced!
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
A real revolution! I don't mean to say that the Revolution was a Socialist Revolution, because that’s not true; the Revolution took place in the Liberal ambit, but it is a great leap in the Liberal camp. And all that is real study, not only studying what’s happening around him, because there were Study Circles where he participated permanently.
So why does he come back to Nicaragua? Apart from the fact that they jagged him and taunted him that Nicaraguans were traitors, he returns because here Constitutionality is broken. So that idea of Constitutionality plus the idea that the rupture had provoked a Civil War, is provocative, there was a very strong motivation, and led us to here. Of course, here we find a very backward country from the Political-Ideological point of view, a dreadful backwardness! Like the one we found perhaps in our own time.
Then, due to particular circumstances, he moved to the Minas de San Albino, because when he arrived in León he wanted to go to Niquinohomo, but someone told him not to go to Niquinohomo because his gunshot victim had a lot of power there. Then, there is a moment in which by chance the Mine was hiring, they came to Leon to hire, Sandino realizes that some Workers were going there, and he joins them.
But of course, with his experience, the Company could not hire him as a unskilled worker, and they hire him at a Higher Level, of course, he had an extraordinary Curriculum, with everything I've told you he learned: Merchant Marine Mechanic, etc... An extraordinary Curriculum! But he arrives, I don't know, maybe in July, and from the moment he arrives he begins to conspire with all the boys, explaining them Labor Law, explaining all the things I already told you.
And in October 1927, I skipped something very important, please excuse me, but I am going to go back a bit, he participates in the Constitutionalist War, first in a non-organic way, because in October of the 1926 when he takes the Mine he realizes that in Puerto Cabezas the Government is fighting, he realizes that the Mexicans were helping, that they had sent weapons and that they had weapons, and he decides to go and ask for weapons.
We already know that on December 23rd he was due to arrive, but the United States declare on the 24th that Puerto Cabezas is a neutral zone and give Sacasa and Moncada the order to leave: It's an order! It's not that asking them to leave, it's an order! And they have to go, and they go to Prinzapolka. Then when Sandino arrives they were practically gone, and here comes the famous tale, which is true but is mythified, of the weapons he recovers from the sea, which were there. That's true.
Then he follows the people to Prinzapolka, he arrives at Prinzapolka, and Moncada doesn't recognize his status; he doesn't recognize it for two reasons: first, he asks him: And who made you a General? A completely unknown man in Nicaragua, without any military curriculum, who in Nicaragua at the time, well, in all the times we have had military struggles, being a soldier implied having a military curriculum, he had never had one, so Sandino says: "My people"; as simple as that.
The other reason why Moncada doesn't recognize it, is that Sandino, and I didn't explain this part, although he had never been in the Military, how he studied the Revolution, how he studied the Movements, or the Leaders, how they operated, how the Military Leaders had operated, who were the main Military Leaders, what was the military conflict within the Revolution. Because the Revolution was not won and then everyone stayed quiet, rather, everyone was fighting for Power.
So he tells Moncada that it is necessary to open a new front in Las Segovias to distract the Yanks. He never said "Yankees", that's a word, a very important statement, for him it was the Yanks! And Moncada says to him: No, man, what are you going to do in Las Segovias? There's nothing to do there. In the end, he didn't recognize Sandino’s status.
But in April or so, or at the end of March 1926 the Conservatives had surrounded Moncada in Boaco; so Moncada who knew that Sandino was in Las Segovias summons him, and says to him: If you don't come I'll hold you responsible. Well, Sandino accepts the challenge, and comes and saves Moncada, but saving Moncada only set up the conditions for Moncada to negotiate with the Yankees.
Here comes what you said in the introduction, the betrayal at Espino Negro. Sandino does not accept and returns to Las Segovias, where, from May 1927 he starts the direct confrontation with the Yanks, first at the Diplomatic-Military level, the Yanks wrote to him: Surrender, that you have nothing to do; and he answered that he did. That is a very important thing, from that point on he never stops writing, he begins to write and write and write.
As you said, it is true, the Internationalists who came to accompany him were all of a good intellectual level, and he made use of them all as Secretaries. I'm going to tell you an anecdote, when Alexander came, a Colombian, "chele", that when they saw him they captured him because he was "chele" and his name was Alexander.
But when Alexander arrives, he finally takes him to Colindres with Sandino, and in the first conversation Sandino says to Alexander: And what do you know about Bolívar? I'm a specialist in Bolivar. And then you start to delve deeper into Bolivar; that's very important. That is to say, almost all the South Americans who arrived were Bolivarians, except perhaps Pavletich from Peru.
When I say this in the presence of Peruvians they get upset, but the reality is that Peru is not Bolivarian, I am referring to the traditional political establishment. Peru is Sanmartiniano, for them San Martin is the main thing, of course, they recognize Bolivar because finally Bolivar went to save them.
But well, deepening his study of Bolívar, that Sandino had already studied in Mexico because he says so, he even says when he writes the San Albino Manifesto, that he uses an expression that is not hs own, but Bolívar's. So you can see the historical formation he had.
Finally, we already know that the elections of Moncada in 1928, served to diminish international solidarity because the Yankees sold the idea, that the struggle against the Conservatives had already ended and that there was going to be from November 28th a Constitutional Government, that Constitutionality was returned to Nicaragua and that the struggle no longer made sense.
At that point Sandino begins to see how to avoid that drop in solidarity. And, in how to interpret that, there are some extraordinary writings by Sandino, all tactical, but within the tactical the strategic was emerging, because every time he wrote a document he put something, a kind of starting point of the strategic; to the degree that when Moncada is elected, although of course Sandino never recognized the election of Moncada, he proposes the Constitutionalization of Moncada's Government, and he writes a document, which I know, with 15 points,is a very long document but an extraordinary one, where he offers Moncada some elements to really make the government constitutional. I am not going to mention them because that is very long, but I am going to mention that within those elements he is already beginning to talk about Mexico.
This was on January 6th 1929, and the same January 6th after that document Sandino writes to President Portes Gil for help. And the letter goes to Mexico, Portes Gil was late replying, this was in January, February, March, April, May, he took 4 months to respond. Why does it take him 4 months to respond? Because he was creating the internal conditions to confine Sandino to Yucatan.
This is a period, or more than the period, this decision of Portes Gil must be studied very thoroughly, because since Sandino arrived everyone knew that he was not going to Mexico City, that he was not going to meet the President of the Republic, that he was going to be confined to Yucatan. He of course does not understand that as confinement, because the person who receives him in Veracruz, the first step on the way to Yucatan, was Sandino’s representative in Mexico, Pedro José Zepeda, and Pedro José Zepeda explains to him why he is in Yucatan, because the crisis in the relationship with the United States was still difficult. That was a lie, it was no longer difficult, because relations had been fixed three years earlier.
But well, that was the explanation, and Sandino since he had an extraordinary preparation... and you have to read Sandino's letters to know the preparation he had, he writes to the President that he is clear that the President has external commitments, etc., etc., but that he has to be faithful to the Mexican Revolution. Imagine what his preparation!
But he failed to convince Portes Gil, and was confined for almost a year, and after being confined for almost a year he returned to Nicaragua, and there is one thing that is very important, he returned to Nicaragua, and returned to Las Segovias, and the Generals gave him a War Report of everything that had happened during the year of his absence. What do you think? What do you make of that?
The war goes on, the Yankees had already formed what was called the Constabulary, the Constabulary was the vanguard, and the struggle was against the Constabulary, but the gringos were behind them, not ahead as now in the case we already know in Venezuela now. Finally Juan Bautista Sacasa triumphs, and Sandino thinks that with Sacasa he can negotiate, he negotiates Peace on the basis that the Power was Sacasa.
Alberto Mora
But he defeated the gringos, right?
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Of course! The departure of the gringos on January 1, 1933 was simply because they were defeated, there was nothing left to do. But this is another subject that must be studied very critically, the negotiation of the peace, because the real interlocutor was Somoza, although he did not appear as interlocutor, why? because Sacasa did not give him the category of interlocutor either.
Somoza was an interlocutor created by circumstances, because obviously the Yankees were not going to leave the country without trying to keep control; and that explains why one of the first conditions Sandino sets is the Constitutionalization of the Guard, because he always said it was unconstitutional, and it really was unconstitutional. How were the Yankees and the Guard going to allow it to be declared unconstitutional? You have to study that a lot, really a great deal.
Then comes Sandino’s murder and that needs to be studied because there were subjective elements that could explain why Sandino was confident that they would not betray him. Sandino was a Theosophist, Somoza was a Mason, they had that in common perhaps, let's say.
Alberto Mora
Too much trust, no? People popularly say: He trusted too much.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
You have to study that very thoroughly. There is his belief that the Power really was Sacasa, there’s that affinity of spiritual belief... I don't know, there are some elements that need to be studied.
Alberto Mora
Don Aldo, but everyone was in the conspiracy against Sandino, there were the gringos, there were the politicians, even the Conservatives.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
The order to kill Sandino was obviously from the Yankees, but the execution was local, of course Somoza, and then he openly states at a reception in Granada: It's true, I ordered the death! I mean, that's not in doubt.
Alberto Mora
But those who supported it were Liberals, Conservatives, all of them; because some say only Liberals did.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
All of them. Of course, the Conservatives too, I'm talking about Granada which is the Conservative base, the Conservatives were the ones who elevated Somoza as the Hero of Peace let's call him, I don't know the exact word if he was Prince or Hero, or whatever, but they saw him as the Great Peacemaker, Somoza García.
So he emerges regarded as the "Great Peacemaker," but in spite of that he summons all his most trusted people and makes them sign that they agree to the murder. And they sign the document. And they assassinate him. Then there comes the confiscation and falsification. Sandino was erased and a condemned Sandino was presented, completely stigmatized, a bandit!
Alberto Mora
Sandino, Carlos Fonseca, the FSLN, and what’s happened now.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
There is an important element there, in the Meeting that Carlos Fonseca and Guerrero have, we have to explain that Guerrero was a member of the Communist Party and that he lived in Veracruz, after the failure in El Chaparral the Cubans say that they will no longer help us and they did not help us.
But in 1961, or maybe in 1960, Guerrero Santiago manages to get money, and with that money as there was already a guerrilla force in Bocay, Tomás Borge, Carlos Fonseca, Guerrero Santiago and someone else I don't remember meet, and there they discuss the name that was going to be given to this political-military force.
Carlos proposes Sandinismo, Guerrero Santiago opposes it and gives an unconvincing explanation, and I believe that the Revolutionary Forces of the World, starting with Algeria, identified themselves as the National Liberation Front, so the National Liberation Front was chosen. But well, that's why we Sandinistas decided to take 1961 as the starting point of the Sandinista Front and not 1963 which is what Carlos declares in a National Guard document.
But one element is very important: Santos Lopez. Santos Lopez was a very young man, perhaps 20 years when Sandino was murdered, but he was a man of good political-military formation and joins Carlos and the others. So there's a link there, but the conviction was Carlos', at a time when we still didn't know or when we were just beginning to know Sandino through Gregorio Selser, as I told you.
Alberto Mora
That is why this Nicaragua is the way it is, Nicaragua with Sandinismo, it is Anti-Imperialist, Solidarity oriented and Nationalist.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
The principles of Sandino are 5: Nationalism, Anti-Imperialism, Latin Americanism, Internationalism, and the other Principle which has to do with his theosophical formation, is Brotherhood.
You know that among ourselves we always call each other Brother, but that is Sandino. Those five Principles were discovered little by little, they were taught, but not documented. In the study comes the documentation, and Carlos, who was an extraordinary man from the point of view of Discipline and Study, imposed on the first Sandinista militants permanent Study, first of Nicaragua, and then of all the other revolutions under way, their successes and failures.
Alberto Mora
Something I wanted to ask you... Carlos Fonseca warned, the other day Carlos Fonseca Terán said it here: Beware of those who put the image of Sandino and who are not Sandinistas at all. Sandino was Liberal, he fought with the Liberals, but the Liberals did nothing to rescue the figure of Sandino, it was the Sandinista Front, and we should see that in its true dimension.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
It's that Sandino always claimed to be Liberal, but Liberal doctrinally, not like the Liberals of today who are not really Liberals at all, and ourselves of course...
Alberto Mora
But still, those Liberals didn't do anything when Sandino was erased from history. On the contrary, they were his enemies.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Because the Liberals were led by Moncada!
Alberto Mora
And then historically in those complicated years you talk about, they also did nothing to rehabilitate Sandino.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Since 1926 the Liberals had already become Conservatives, and with the pact of the Espino Negro even more so. But that is a secondary discussion...
Alberto Mora
It's over the Sandinista flag, the flag of the Sandinista Front.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Red has nothing to do with liberals. Red and Black has an anarchist origin; but all the Revolutionary Movements of America acquired it. The Red and Black have nothing to do with the Liberals.
Alberto Mora
I mean the Sandinista Front, and the figure of Sandino as taken up by Sandinismo.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
We adopted Sandino, first the image, then the man, Leader, Soldier, Ideologue, we never mythologized him, we have always considered him as a Human Being, we never ended up saying, as they did with Bolivar for example, from 1830 to 1871 that they fully vindicate him, they always vindicated the successful soldier, never the Ideologue. Not us, we adopted everything.
Alberto Mora
Of course, he was a great Thinker.
There is an infamous book written by a deceased gentleman, Bolaños, who reduces the figure of Sandino, he wants to reduce Sandino to his condition of having been born out of wedlock. I remember someone made an analysis about the contribution of children out of wedlock in the history of Central America. They tried to do the same with Carlos Fonseca.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
As for origins and formation, someone who was President said that Emiliano Chamorro was a bastard, which is true; then I wrote an article about bastardy, and I told him: We are all bastards in Nicaragua, bastardy runs through all families, there is no Family that does not have a bastard in their Genealogical Tree.
Alberto Mora
But when the bastard comes to power, everyone is glad to know him and claim they are family, right? When the bastard seizes power: That’s my Brother, they say.
Aldo Díaz Lacayo
Of course. Exactly. And they go to the Civil Registry to try to change the records...
Alberto Mora
Thank you very much, Don Aldo, it is always a pleasure to have you on the program, I want to tell you that we really learn from you and I hope that our viewers have had the opportunity to do so, if you don't have to search for it on YouTube or on the Channel 4’s Live platform,.